Made in Partnership with 
Kevin & Melissa Fredericks continue to prove that they can accomplish and get through anything, together. Their first book, “Marriage Be Hard: 12 Conversations to Keep You Laughing, Loving, and Learning with Your Partner”, just made The New York Times Best Seller list; Melissa’s thriving as an influencer in her own right connecting with women online daily, Kevin is currently on tour and they’ve returned for Season 4 of “Couch Conversations” (now available on the Black Love+ app) as the hosts! Riding the highest of highs, they were hit with an unexpected low – the sudden death of Kevin’s older brother, Jason Fredericks. As this season of “Couch Conversations” comes to a close, The Fredericks discussed marriage, love, laughter, loss, and how they keep each other encouraged with Black Love.
Kevin Fredericks: I don’t know if you ever asked that question. That’s a good question, Yasmine. I would say that I don’t know that we had explicit couple goals as much as I had a goal of being financially secure and buying a house, like, those types of things. So in some ways, yes, those goals have been met, but not in the way that I thought then, if that makes sense. I always thought we’d still just have like a nine-to-five and that would be the way to reach the American dream, so to speak but that’s not where we are.
When I decided that I wanted to propose I was in college and I didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life. I think at this time I still thought I had a chance to join in the military, which is just a hilarious visual of me doing push-ups, running and taking orders. But I was like, whatever I want to do with my life, I want to do it with her.
And I think in that sense, we’re still doing life together and we’ve gone from being in college with no real job to out of college, our first kind of real jobs and that journey, and then our move to LA and then we started this, so I think in some ways, just still being married and still doing life together, that’s the dream has come true because so many people don’t have a marriage anymore at all. I’m just grateful that we are still married. Even if we don’t know exactly what we’re doing next or trying to figure out what we’re doing, we’re still married, and that gives me great joy.
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Yasmime Jameelah: Melissa, I want to talk about “Couch Conversations” and something you said that I thought was so profound during the high school sweethearts episode. When discussing if there was a benefit to marrying your high school sweetheart, you said when meeting someone when you’re older, you might be less flexible and willing to go through the growing together that younger couples experience together — because you’re already grown. What advice would you give someone who’s trying to make it with their high school sweetheart and grow together like you and Kevin have?
Melissa Fredericks: I would say two things. I’m a strong believer in not ignoring red flags and listening to yourself. When you’re having the conversations late at night and you’re up thinking and you’re trying to figure out, is this a red flag? Is this not a red flag? Listen to yourself. Be honest and transparent with yourself. I also would say don’t create scenarios in your mind to preclude yourself because you’re simply afraid of committing. For example, oh, he drinks coffee in the morning, I can’t do it. That’s just going to be a “no” for me. And these are the reasons why we can’t work etc. We can create some dots that don’t exist and connect them in a way that doesn’t really work. So it’s finding the balance and honestly, that also starts with therapy. Getting to know yourself, understanding what your boundaries are, understanding your non-negotiables, and who you are as a person will help you readily identify if this is a long-term prospect or someone you’re wasting time with, once you’re able to identify that for yourself, it’s easier for you to identify who this person could be in the long haul.
Then I would say, once you decide to commit, commit. Don’t be back and forth. Don’t be wishy-washy. Make a decision and then commit to that decision. That’s how you get yourself to that’s how you figure out if this is something that’s going to work long term.
YJ: I couldn’t agree more. So, let’s talk about your book because you’ve made The New York Times Bestsellers list! Was it a goal for you?
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KF: It honestly wasn’t a goal. I think the first goal of the book was simply to finish the book. Writing the book was such a daunting project, I couldn’t even think about it. I ain’t gone hold you, I thought writing a book would be a lot easier than it actually was.
MF: It was a lot of work.
KF: (Kevin laughs) A lot of work! So I don’t even think I thought about the New York Times Best Seller list until the book was absolutely done. Honestly, I’ll give you the order. We’re going to write a book. Number one goal, get started.
MF: And finish it on time because publishers don’t play about their deadline.
KF: They really don’t, because we asked for an extension! They were like, no, we got pre-orders we got all this stuff, so I was like, okay they’re serious. So then we got to 500 pre-orders, and then we made it to 5,000, and it started to feel like we could make the list.
MF: Once we did the pre-orders and they were strong, our publisher kind of let us know we were approaching the number of books for the New York Times Best Seller list. And then all of a sudden, it was like, oh my gosh, this is now, like, within reach! It wasn’t something I’d previously thought about, and now all I’m consumed with is this idea to become a New York Times Best Seller. I am almost happy, though, that it wasn’t a goal upfront because I think it would have added an additional layer of stress. And the process was already stressful enough that I don’t think we needed until the book was out in the world. Now you can get excited about this new goal that you didn’t have.
KF: And then lowkey, once we made it, we found out how hard it was to make it. The people we were competing with in our categories. It’s a whole different industry with its own rules and players and all this stuff, so it was like learning a new language, so to speak. But now that we’ve made it, it’s more satisfying to realize how hard that was and what a feat it was for people like us and a testament to the people who support us that when we made the list, they made the list too.
YJ: While we’re talking about your supporters, I want to pivot to the church for a minute because you both grew up in church and share about that in your content. Melissa, you shared transparently about your experiences in church growing up and what you’ve had to unlearn. Do you feel like there is a way to balance exposing your children to faith, showing them who God is, but also protecting them and shielding them from things that can be harmful?
MF: Oh, absolutely, 100%. I think by leaning into sex as an example, by leaning into what sex is and celebrating the beauty of what sex is as a connection between two people, as a way of expressing your love, like a way of intimacy. Being able to lean into that and not to scare them away, but actually be able to celebrate that this is a beautiful thing. And then just adding as a caveat that God created this for this purpose. And when you do things outside of that purpose, these are potential consequences. I don’t have to bash you, I don’t have to scare you, I don’t have to hail and brimstone you. I just have to simply state what it is. I truly believe that when you go the route of scaring people, all it’s going to do is stroke curiosity, if nothing else and curiosity will have people doing something I know business doing, doing it wrong and unprotected.
I also allow them to be curious about their bodies and not shame them for it, acknowledge it as something normal, as part of growing up. Because as you age, the more comfortable you are in your own skin, the reality is, the better the sex becomes later on, the more aware you are in your body, the better the sex is later on in life. And I think once we can teach our kids those things, they don’t have to learn it for porn, they don’t have to learn it for their friends. It becomes less taboo, and I think that extends to a lot of things.
YJ: Would you say that your relationship with God has affirmed you as a creative?
KF: Melissa can tell you probably more than anybody else, anytime I finish an hour of comedy, I am like, I don’t know if I can even do this. Am I even funny anymore? What jokes could I come up with? What will I be doing? Maybe I’ll take a break from it. And Melissa will call me out on it. At one point, she was like, I feel like you are just afraid, and you haven’t done the work to work these new jokes out, and I feel like if you do that, you’ll find yourself again. Even in creating “Churchy”, this big show that Melissa and I invested in, I wondered if this is going to work. Will people get it? I feel like that little voice is kind of always there. A friend of mine, Steven Louis, is a therapist, and he said something that we were talking about recently about impostor syndrome — I definitely suffer from that, but God works in mysterious ways, so to speak, with Melissa and the God in her has comforted me.
MF: And I think that is the way that God provides that comfort or security that you’re going to be okay. I don’t know that without Kevin in my life or me in his that our own inner monologues wouldn’t take over and allow the fear to keep you paralyzed instead of encouraging you to move forward.
YJ: You two have so many amazing projects happening right now, but you’re also navigating a tremendous loss. How are you, and what would you say to someone that’s trying to navigate a loss while experiencing wins in life?
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KF: First of all, I would tell my brother, you are wack for dying the day after we made the list. Very selfish of you to take our spotlight (Kevin says jokingly). Although, I’m happy that he and I talked that day. We were crying and sent each other photos of one another crying and we had that experience, and then it was literally tremendous joy followed by not even equally more tremendous sorrow. Like the scale’s not even equal. And I think I would say to people like, this might not be profound, but I think it’s the truth. It sucks.
I’ve been working on empathy with my wife in therapy. And sometimes people it’s our nature to want to uplift people, right? We want to pull our loved ones out of the hole, but sometimes better to get down in the hole with them and sit with them and say, this absolutely sucks.
You don’t need to necessarily say, I lost someone, too. It doesn’t suck because you can relate. It just sucks because it sucks. My brother was a sibling, but he was also my friend and a sibling to Melissa because we are a close family. I feel like I lost two people.
MF: When it happened, I said I needed to speak to the manager of Earth because it’s not currently giving God is in control.
YJ: Grief and loss will do that to you. You start to question everything.
KF: You really do. So at this moment, I feel like I got knocked off my square for sure, and everything I believe was called into question. I think that they talk about how grief is unexpressed love. You have this love that you can’t go to the person the way he previously was able to go to them. And I know he’s with you in spirit, but you all know what I’m saying. I call my brother every day. And I wanted to call him the other day. This is the harsh part of this. I go to text him off in second nature. I go to call him, and I’m like he’s gone.
MF: In addition to everything Kevin said, this is something Tab (Tabitha Brown) told me a couple of days ago that helped me: lean into both feelings in the moment that you feel them. So if you’re feeling really sad about the loss of your loved one, lean into that in that moment, because it’s authentic to how you’re feeling in that moment. And if the very next moment or the very next day or in a few hours you’re authentically happy about an accomplishment, lean into that as well, because that’s how you’re authentically feeling in that moment.
If you’re able to just authentically be and feel however you’re feeling in that moment, I think that’s one of the best ways to manage grief because it’s hard to be happy when I want to be sad or be sad when I feel like I need to be happy. And realizing that those two things can coexist at different times and allowing yourself to just be without judgment.
Earlier in that day, she sent us a bouquet of flowers to the house and was like, congratulations, you guys made the New York Times Best Seller list. Don’t forget to celebrate that. And in that moment, I smiled because I’m like, yes, that’s really cool and neat and something that I never thought I would accomplish and did. And I allowed that moment to be what it was. Yeah, just allow yourself to be whatever you’re feeling authentically and do it without judgment.
YJ: What do you hope your supporters take away from both your book and this season of “Couch Conversations”?
KF: What has been helpful for us is finding your feelings and having conversations about them to make ourselves stronger. That’s what we want to happen when you read this book.The goal isn’t for you guys to replicate our marriage or feel like we’re couples goals. The goal is for you to have a launching point for great conversations that could strengthen your marriage. The same with “Couch Conversations”, you don’t have to agree with us, but the show can be a foundational piece into having these conversations with your partner.
MF: The goal is to get you thinking about your relationship and to begin to have these discussions with your pattern. These discussions are thought starters; all of those things are really important in any relationship.
For more of Kev and Melissa, tune into Season 4 of “Couch Conversations” available on the Black Love+ app, purchase their book “Marriage Be Hard: 12 Conversations to Keep You Laughing, Loving, and Learning with Your Partner”, now available to purchase at Target, and tune in to their sitcom “Churchy” that premieres on @kevonstagestudios on November 5th.
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